January 20, 2007

Wisconsin vs. Minnesota (Once and for All)

This comparison is current as of the date above.

After having many "arguments" (I put the word in quotes because their side of the debate is flimsy and laughable, at best) with people who come from the lesser state of Minnesota and may or may not attend the questionable university which is located there, I have decided to definitively present the evidence and end the "debate" once and for all. I know Gophers fans will undoubtedly come up with some criticisms of these statistics, rankings, and head to head match-ups, but they are usually either incomprehensible, irrelevant, or just plain stupid. Here, then, let us look at the 20 men's and women's sports both universities have as well as the yearly Border Battle and Director's Cup, broken up into 4 parts. Listed from most to least important in my humble opinion, the first are the "Big 4" that everyone cares about and those sports that get the most media exposure (except for baseball, since UW doesn't have it anymore...*sigh*). Next come "The Middle-Tier" 4, then "The Small Time" 6, and finally "The Who Gives a Shit" 6. In some cases I only calculated post-1990, since that is what I would define as the new "modern" era -- you know, the one I've been alive in. Notice, I gave each sport an amount of categories that are up for grabs, based on what I considered to be more important, nationally recognized sports. Thus, the Border Battle and Director's cups are each worth 15 (with each category being worth 5), Football and Men's Basketball have 13, Men's Hockey and Volleyball 11, "The Middle-Tier" 4 are each worth 7, and the last "Small Time" and "Who Gives a Shit" 12 sports are worth just 5 points each). Without further ado, then, lets take a look at the numbers and considerations:

Part 1: Border Battle, Director's Cup, and "The Big" 4

  • Border Battle (yearly competition for points in every sport)
    • All-time record: 1-1 [PUSH]
    • Current points: 225-95 [UW]
    • Total Point Differential: 810-830 [UM]
    • Notes: We won the competition in its first year 235-205, they won it last year 350-530.
    • Edge: 5-5-5 [PUSH]
  • NACDA Director's Cup (yearly competition that awards points based on each US university's finishes in up to 20 sports, 10 for men and 10 for women, and each national champion receives 100 points)
    • All-time record (times UW has been ranked higher vs. times UM has): 6-7 [UM]
    • Current Rankings: UW - Tied for #4 | UM - #28 [UW]
    • Top 25 Finishes: UW - 10 | UM - 12 [UM]
    • Edge: 5-10 [UM]
  • Football
    • All-time record: 49-59-8 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 13-5 [UW]
    • Battle for Paul Bunyan's Axe record: 32-23-3 [UW]
    • Current Rankings: UW - #7/5 | UM - NR/NR [UW]
    • Heisman Trophy Winners: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Consensus All-America Selections: UW - 20 | UM - 33 [UM]
    • First Team All-Big Ten Selections: UW - 181 | UM - 174 [UW]
    • Bowl Records: UW - 10-8 | UM - 5-6 [UW]
    • Top 25 Finishes since 1990: UW - 7 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Big Ten Conference Championships: UW - 11 | UM - 18 [UM]
    • Rose Bowl Wins: UW - 3 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • National Championships: UW - 0 | | UM - 6 [UM]
    • Intangibles: The disheartening losses in the battle for Paul Bunyan's axe in the last few years, including in 2005 ("you're not coming into my kitchen and cooking for free" -- notorious Wisconsin-hater Lou Holtz calls the game in favor of UM, when suddenly a B-Will touchdown, blocked punt, and UM fumble give us the game) and 2006 (an utterly dominating performance by our team on both sides of the ball at Camp Randall); the fact that UM currently is without a coach (Glen Mason was fired just before new years); the absolute atrocity of watching a game in the off-campus Metrodome (a situation that will mercifully be remedied in 2009 when TCF Bank Stadium opens on campus); the clearly superior fan base and marching band of Wisconsin, including traditions like Varsity, Jump Around, etc. [UW]
    • Notes: All 6 of UM's national championships came before 1962, with most of them won in the decidedly un-modern 1930s and 40s.
    • Edge: 9-4 [UW]
  • Men's Basketball
    • All-time record: 84-97 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 18-13 [UW]
    • Current Rankings: UW - #2/3| UM - NR/NR [UW]
    • Consensus All-America Selections: UW - 6 | UM - 3 [UW]
    • First Team All-Big Ten Selections: UW - 53 | UM - 31 [UW]
    • Top 25 Finishes since 1990: UW - 6 | UM - 2 [UW]
    • Big Ten Conference Championships: UW - 16 | UM - 8 [UW]
    • Big Ten Tournament Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances since 1990: UW - 10 | UM - 3 [UW]
    • Sweet 16 Appearances since 1990: UW - 3 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • Final 4 Appearances since 1990: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • National Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Intangibles: As with football, UM currently has no coach, after Dan Monson's "resignation" (a nicer word for what really happened -- him being fired) and Jim Molinari's appointment as interim coach; Williams Arena (aka the "Barn"), UM's home court since 1928, is rich in history but woefully outdated -- the facility only has a capacity of 14,625, compared to the modern Kohl Center's 17,142. [UW]
    • Notes: Both of UM's top 25 finishes since 1990 occurred during the period between 1993-1999, when, under coach Clem Haskins, it was later revealed certain student athletes were ineligible due to NCAA rules violations. This was UM's second use of ineligible players -- in the 1977-78 season, the NCAA declared all UM games forfeits and the Big 10 lists the Gophers' record that year as 0-27 and 0-18 in conference.
    • Edge: 12-1 [UW]
  • Men's Hockey
    • All-time record: 78-144-15 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 21-44-5 [UM]
    • Current Rankings: UW - NR/NR| UM - #1/1 [UM]
    • Hobey Baker Memorial Award Winners: UW - 0 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • AHCA First Team All-America Selections: UW - 25 | UM - 35 [UM]
    • First Team All-WCHA Selections: UW - 25 | UM -47 [UM]
    • WCHA Conference Championships (MacNaughton Cup): UW - 3 | UM - 11 [UM]
    • WCHA Playoff Championship (Broadmoor Trophy): UW - 11 | UM - 13 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances since 1990: UW - 12 | UM - 14 [UM]
    • Frozen Four Appearances since 1990: UW - 3 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • National Championships: UW - 6 | UM - 5 [UW]
    • Intangibles: While the tradition of UM hockey is truly unmatched by any team in the country, it has long been known throughout college hockey circles that the student sections and fans at places like Cornell and Wisconsin (the Crease Creatures) far outmatch their strangely quieter counterparts at UM's Mariucci Arena. Furthermore, Mariucci itself -- while a great facility in its own right -- is severely outmatched by UW's Kohl Center -- Mariucci has a capacity of 10,000 and is 13 years old already, while UW leads the nation in attendance every year with a capacity of 14,000 in its relatively modern (9 years old) facility. [UW]
    • Edge: 2-9 [UM]
  • Volleyball
    • All-time record: 25-34 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 19-15 [UW]
    • Current Rankings: UW - #10/11 | UM - #6/8 [UM]
    • AVCA/NCAA All-America Selections: UW - 9 | UM - 4 [UW]
    • First Team All-Big Ten Selections: UW - 31 | UM - 37 [UM]
    • AVCA Top 25 Finishes since 1990: UW - 12 | UM - 7 [UW]
    • Big Ten Conference Championships: UW - 4 | UM - 2 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances since 1990: UW - 14 | UM - 11 [UW]
    • Final 4 Appearances since 1990: UW - 1 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Intangibles: While UW's Field House is one of the oldest volleyball venues in the country (it was dedicated in 1930), it is also one of the largest and most steeped in tradition, with a capacity of 11,500; Wisconsin is consistently among the leaders in the country in attendance, being ranked 3rd in 2004 with a total of 69,350 and an average of 4,079; The Field House was also home to the largest collegiate volleyball crowd in history when 13,194 attended the NCAA final in 1998; UW has led the Big Ten in attendance for 10 straight years, including the last 7 years in a row; UM ranked 3rd nationally in attendance last year and has been in the top 10 for the last 7 years, but both numbers come up short when compared to UW; UM's Sports Pavilion only seats 5,700, while UW's Block Party student section is among the largest and most dedicated in the country. [UW]
    • Notes: The UM media guide lists the volleyball team's all-time record against UW as 30-28 + UM's 2 wins this year = 32-28. Not sure why this discrepancy exists, but take it for what you will.
    • Edge: 6-4-1 [UW]
Total (part 1): 39-33-6 [UW]

Part 2: "The Middle-Tier" 4
  • Wrestling
    • All-time record: 35-52-1 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 5-11 [UM]
    • Current Rankings: UW - #15/17 | UM - #1/1 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Conference Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 9 [UM]
    • Individual Big Ten Conference Championships: UW - 63 | UM - 81 [UM]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 16 | UM - 18 [UM]
    • Notes: UM also leads in All-Big Ten selections, which I left out.
    • Edge: 0-7 [UM]
  • Women's Basketball
    • All-time record: 28-27 [UW]
    • Record since 1990: 17-12 [UW]
    • Consensus All-America Selections: UW - 0 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • First Team All-Big Ten Selections: UW - 11 | UM - 9 [UW]
    • Top 25 Finishes since 1990: UW - 0 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances since 1990: UW - 6 | UM - 5 [UW]
    • Final 4 Appearances since 1990: UW - 0 | UM - 1 [UM]
    • Notes: I left out current rankings because neither team is currently ranked, as well as national championships since neither team has won any, and Big Ten Conference championships for the same reason. I also left out Sweet 16 appearances, which UM has more of than UW by a margin of 3 to 0. 3 out of 4 of UM's consensus All-Americans played prior to 1990, with Carol Ann Shudlick in 1994 being the lone "modern" All-American.
    • Edge: 4-3 [UW]
  • Women's Hockey
    • All-time record: 12-24-3 [UM]
    • Current Rankings: UW - #2/2 | UM - #7/7 [UW]
    • First Team All-WCHA Selections: UW - 10 | UM - 15 [UW]
    • WCHA Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 2 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • Frozen Four Appearances: UW - 1 | UM - 5 [UM]
    • National Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 3 [UM]
    • Notes: I left out record since 1990 since UW first began its women's hockey program in 1999. For that reason, I threw out any records UM had prior to 1999 (in 1998 and 1997) for fairness reasons. The other things left out were: the Patty Kazmaier Award (top female hockey player), since UW and UM both have 1 winner -- Sara Bauer in 2006 and Krissy Wendell in 2005, respectively; First Team All-America Selections (because there are 3 separate bodies in the AHCA, JOFA, and CCM that have their own lists and the UW/UM media guides don't use the same organization to calculate their All-Americans; and Frozen Four appearances, which UM leads 5-1 over UW.
    • Edge: 2-5 [UM]
  • Softball
    • All-time record: 13-9 [UW]
    • First Team All-Big Ten Selections: UW - 2 | UM - 7 [UM]
    • First Team All-America Selections: UW - 0 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Big Ten Tournament Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 1 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances since 1995: UW - 6 | UM - 5 [UW]
    • National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Notes: I calculated everything from 1995-on since that is the first year UW established softball. Any records prior to 1995 I threw out for fairness considerations. I left out current rankings since neither team was ranked last year nor ranked in this year's preseason softball polls. The UM media guide lists their softball team's overall record vs. UW as 9-11. Not sure why this discrepancy exists, either. I also left out top 25 finishes since 1995, since neither team had achieved this feat.
    • Edge: 2-3-2 [UM]
Total (part 2): 8-18-2 [UM]
Total (parts 1 + 2): 47-51-8 [UM]

Part 3: "The Small-Time" 6
  • Men's Track & Field
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 406 | UM - 170 [UW]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 35 | UM - 6 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 90 | UM - 70 [UW]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 27 | UM - 12 [UW]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 1 [UM]
    • Notes: For team Big Ten and National championships, I added together indoor and outdoor totals to arrive at each number. I left out all-time record and record since 1990 since Big Ten track doesn't face off against each other. I also left out first team selections in the Big Ten and All-America, as well as current rankings and times finished in the top 25.
    • Edge: 4-1 [UW]
  • Women's Track & Field
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 163 | UM - 51 [UW]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 15 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 44 | UM - 27 [UW]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 33 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Notes: I left out the same things as with men's track & field for the same reasons and to be fair and for issues of similarity. I got the numbers the same way as well, by adding together the indoor and outdoor seasons.
    • Edge: 4-0-1 [UW]
  • Men's Cross-Country
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 25 | UM - 7 [UW]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 39 | UM - 4 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 45 | UM - 17 [UW]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 4 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 4 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Notes: I used the same system as for track & field, except here I didn't have to add indoor and outdoor since there is only one season in cross-country.
    • Edge: 5-0 [UW]
  • Women's Cross-Country
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 10 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 13 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 20 | UM - 9 [UW]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 3 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 2 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Notes: Same system as for track & field and men's cross-country.
    • Edge: 5-0 [UW]
  • Women's Soccer
    • All-time record: 10-7 [UW]
    • First Team All-Big Ten selections: UW - 17 | UM - 16 [UW]
    • Big Ten Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • Big Ten Tournament Championships: UW - 2 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 14 | UM - 5 [UW]
    • Notes: I left out national championships because neither team had any, although UW did take 1 second place and 1 third place, while UM has zero across the board. I also left out record since 1990, since the first year of Big Ten women's soccer was 1994 (although the two teams did play prior to 1994). I also left out current rankings and first team All-America selections because there are multiple organizations which award All-Americans and each athletic program doesn't always recognize the same ones.
    • Edge: 4-1 [UW]
  • Women's Rowing
    • All-time record: 5-1 [UW]
    • Current rankings: UW - #10 | UM - #12 [UW]
    • First Team All-Big Ten selections: UW - 10 | UM - 7 [UW]
    • CRCA First Team All-America selections: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • NCAA Championship Appearances: UW - 3 | UM - 1 [UW]
    • Notes: This is normal weight rowing, not women's lightweight rowing, which UW won the national championship in last year. Since Big Ten rowing didn't begin until 2000, I didn't calculate record since 1990. Even though in rowing teams don't directly compete against each other 1 on 1, I calculated the all-time record by comparing the number of times UW finished higher than UM in the Big Ten standings (since 2001, since UM didn't join the Big Ten in rowing until then) with the number of times UM finished higher, much like the way I did it for the Director's Cup all-time record. I also left out top 25 finishes since 1990, and Big Ten and National Championships, since each team has none.
    • Edge: 5-0 [UW]
Total (part 3): 27-2-1 [UW]
Total (parts 1 + 2 + 3): 74-53-9 [UW]

Part 4: "The Who Gives a Shit" 6

  • Men's Tennis
    • All-time record: 48-58-3 [UM]
    • Record since 1990: 6-14 [UM]
    • First Team All-America selections: UW - 0 | UM - 8 [UM]
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 4 | UM - 15 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 4 [UM]
    • Notes: I left out individual and team national championships, because neither team had any. I also left off first team all Big Ten selections, top 25 finishes, and current rankings because neither team was ranked in the top 25 at the end of last year (Minnesota was ranked #35 in the final ITA).
    • Edge: 0-5 [UM]
  • Women's Tennis
    • All-time record: 34-12 [UW]
    • Record since 1990: 14-3 [UW]
    • First Team All-America selections: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 0 [UW]
    • Notes: I left out the same things as I did for men's tennis, for mostly the same reasons and for issues of similarity.
    • Edge: 3-0-2 [UW]
  • Men's Golf
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 4 | UM - 8 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 3 | UM - 6 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 13 | UM - 27 [UM]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 1 [UM]
    • Edge: 0-5 [UM]
  • Women's Golf
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 1 | UM - 1 [PUSH]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 1 | UM - 1 [PUSH]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Edge: 0-1-5 [UM]
  • Men's Swimming & Diving
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 41 | UM - 120 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 8 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 37 | UM - 42 [UM]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 2 | UM - 16 [UM]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Notes: Individual Big Ten and national championships include: swimming, diving, and relay events.
    • Edge: 0-4-1 [UM]
  • Women's Swimming & Diving
    • Individual Big Ten Championships: UW - 42 | UM - 62 [UM]
    • Team Big Ten Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 2 [UM]
    • NCAA Tournament Appearances: UW - 15 | UM - 21 [UM]
    • Individual National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 1 [UM]
    • Team National Championships: UW - 0 | UM - 0 [PUSH]
    • Notes: Individual Big Ten and national championships include: swimming, diving, and relay events.
    • Edge: 0-4-1 [UM]
Total (part 4): 3-19-9 [UM]

Grand Total (parts 1 - 4): 77-72-18 [UW]

2 comments:

Anonymous said...

Even as a Gopher fan I am impressed with how much work that must have been. A few things however, Minnesota's Bruce Smith won the 1941 Heisman Trophy.
Also, giving the edge to the Kohl Center for hockey is laughable. The Badgers rarely sell out the place, averaging 13000+ in a 15000 seat building, whereas the Gophers average slightly over capacity.
Lastly, most of the mid range sports like women's rowing should definitely be in the sho gives a shit category. Otherwise, well done.

Lank-Sauce said...

I will hopefully be updating this at the end of this athletics season over the summer. We'll see. I'll make sure to put Bruce Smith in there. I agree with you on women's rowing being in the "who gives a shit" category, but if just didn't seem fair to lump so many other sports in there. *Sigh*, its times like these when I wish UW had a baseball team. Enjoy that, Josh.

As for claiming Mariucci is a better hockey venue, I'm just not sure. I won't be able to say for sure either way until I'm able to see a game there and compare it to the Kohl Center. The point here is that the Kohl Center has a higher average attendance, is a newer facility, and from conversations I've had with CSTV, FSN, etc. news media, is one of the loudest in the country. Again, I'll reserve my judgment for when I'm able to see the crowd at UM in person, but still, I think my point stands. Even if we rarely sell out the Kohl Center, we still pack it with more fans than UM, so until UM builds a better facility or upgrades Mariucci, you can't say for sure that you'd still sell it out all the time if it had a capacity as large as the Kohl Center.

Oh, and I'm also giving the edge to UW on student section and just general ingenuity of cheers and whatnot. I mean, for god's sake Josh, you guys SPELL YOUR STATE when you score. Ugh. Gimmie a break.